User talk:Bilka

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Welcome to factorio! We hope you will contribute much and well. You will probably want to read the help pages. Again, welcome and have fun! Mishka (talk) 13:07, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

Templates that might need CSS cleanup

--Longtomjr (talk) 11:37, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Cleanup done

--Bilka (talk) 11:52, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

CSS has been merged into .factorio-boilerplate for all templates that use Template:Boilerplate. Template:Outdated image, Template:Game image, and Template:Screenshot still use .boilerplate. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 12:48, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Navigation box links

Hi Bilka! I found the misfunction on Navigation page. There are links to Navboxes in lower row of each Navbox but in all languages it links to English template. I'm going to change links. Please see the example. Is it OK to create pages Template:ProductionNav/ru, Template:CombatNav/ru and so on? --Snowball II (talk) 22:50, 11 May 2017 (UTC)
One more question. Is it OK to create pages with Russian names. For example Железная плита with redirection to Iron_plate/ru? --Snowball II (talk) 13:05, 12 May 2017 (UTC)

Hi again. I have not received any response so i create pages Factorio:Navigation/Logistics, Factorio:Navigation/Logistics/ru and change link on Template:ProductionNav. Don't you mind? --Snowball II (talk) 19:59, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
Hey there snowball. Not sure why Bilka didn't respond to you, but we are internally debating how to fix navigation boxes. Please leave it alone until we can form a consensus. As for creating russian redirection names, that's completely fine. --Gangsir (talk) - Admin 21:21, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

German translation worldgenerator

Hi Bilka! I just tried to translate the page World_generator and for me it feels like the page is verry unorganized since it's not written with a intelligent order. So I stopped translating and tried to rearrange the site. My goal was, writing about the Generator in general, then talking about possible configurations, after that talking about the presets. This because it makes no sence for me to talk about presets if you don't understand what they actually change within the config. So I tried to build up the page like you see the menu ingame. I would like to hear your feedback on my attempt. Weltengenerator Vorschlag

Another problem are those sheets with the preesets. I don't know right now if it makes sence to translate them and how. What do you think, can you help me?

Btw: Thanks for CoReading my stuff and checking for typos, I'm trying my best  :)

Greetngs from switzerland Hoeloe (talk) 11:39, 1 September 2017 (UTC)

Your organization definitely seems better to me. I think the biggest problem of the article is that it talks about the gui, its options and their effects, and about how the world generation works. Your organization somewhat seperates those topics, which makes the article more readable.
Some possible improvements: Perhaps you could also list the presets and their descriptions in the first small section on them, and then put something like "Für genauere Information was die Voreinstellungen verändern, siehe [[#Voreinstellungen|]]". A link from the "basically it works with perlin noise" to the section that explains more about it would also be good. I think it might be a good idea to rework the preset resource table so that it only lists the changes from the default, instead of every single option, no matter if one of the presets changes it. Since the official game has translaions on everything used in the world generation gui, translating the rest of the tables shouldn't be too hard. It would be nice if you could do that reorganization also on the English page, "aber es ist kein muss".
I appreciate how well you translate pages. I personally struggle with translating pages like Crafting or the World generator page because I am so used to the English words for things that I can't find appropriate German translations (even though German is my first language...). So thank you for your work on them! -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 12:12, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for your feedback. I will try to totally rewrite the presets part, but first I need to think about how to. I often use links, sometimes it feels too much for me, but the Perlin Noise one makes sence. There is one big point about the english page I struggle. The Erweiterte Konfiguration is actually not covered right now. I don't know, maybe I will try to rewrite the english one, but I definitely need someone to check it since english is not my native language as well.
I just translate the stuff 1:1, rearrange the sentence so it's readable in german and sometimes I switch some terms for better wording. But I know, sometimes you realy need to think about it since english can be written verry easy, flat and repeating while german can be very complex. I thank you for appreciating my work and also that you check it and help me. Ah and when you read my stuff particularly check for missing β's since this letter does not exist in the Swiss-Deutsche Rechtschreibung :) -- Hoeloe (talk) 13:30, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, the advanced options just weren't added to that page yet because it hasn't really seen much of an update to 0.15. I can definitely check the changed page (or your WIP of a rework) for language or ask Gangsir to have a look at it. But what I can read from you right now, your English isn't too bad either :) As a heads up: You should translate page titles, like the title on the crafting page or on the campaign page, using the translation/de template instead of displaytitle. Oh and when you use the languages template, please don't put a blank line between it and the following text. Doing that creates some ugly whitespace at the start of the page. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 15:16, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
Okay, *hust* wieso sagt mir das keiner? Dann möge jemand die Anleitung aus dem Language Template entfernen! :P -- Hoeloe (talk) 12:43, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
I don't see any instructions on that template page that mention using displaytitle. Only in the template itself, stating that it does that. Should I reword that comment? -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 12:56, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
I just found this sentence in the language template and also in other translated /de articles. That was why I used it, I didn't know the translation template does this job. I need to say I'm not very used to wikis in terms of templates programming and stuff. Also there is no guide which explains all this.
What do you think about my attempt of the english Wordlgenerator-page? I messed arround with the page again. The How it works part is now in Generation, Made no sence to me to seperate this. I also changed that Generation is the first section (we can still swap this afterwards). The Presets part now does directly attend the individual presets. Hoeloe (talk) 08:04, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
Such a (style) guide is currently WIP. Just another thing that is missing documentation :/
Looks good so far. However, I think putting the technical generation info first isn't a good move. I imagine that the article is frequented by beginners who just want to know what changing the settings does, not how excatl the world is generated, or when chunks are generated. I think it would be a better idea to take the first few paragraphs of that section (up to the algorithm subsection) and leave them at the beginning of the article, perhaps without a header, more as a general thing. The rest of the generation section should be moved below the presets. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 12:44, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

About {{translation/ms}}

Will do... and now I know how that template works. SNN95 (talk) 11:14, 1 October 2017 (UTC)

Shipwreck

I understand the merging, but did you really need to wipe everything? I worked a very long time on that stuff. I don't see the harm in the shipwreck getting mentioned. It is part of the game - something the player can interact with. -- Zippy (talk) 08:28, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Well, the page had to go and I thought I had copied the relevant info. The problem is simply that we cant document the campaign only items at the same place as the freeplay items, that would only confuse the player; but making the shipwreck a subpage of the campaign page doesnt sound useful either, so the info should just be on the campaign (sub-)page. Feel free to add more info back to the campaign page. Since I dont think you can view the deleted page, I copied the latest state of the Shipwreck page to hastebin: [1]. Let me know if you think some of the images should be restored too, or just include them in the campagin page text about the shipwreck as redlinks and I'll restore the relevant ones. I hope this solution is okay for you. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 09:00, 26 January 2018 (UTC)

Template:Inventory/pl‎‎

Hi Bilka, I apologize for the confusion with the site Inventory/pl‎‎, I read the rules, but I did not apply :(

I wanted to make the name appear in my language after hovering over the icon, so I just start translate in links on this page, from 

<div class="factorio-icon">[[File:Transport belt.png|32px|link=Transport belt{{If language suffix}}]]</div>

to 

<div class="factorio-icon">[[File:Transport belt.png|32px|link=Transport belt{{If language suffix}}|Taśmociąg]]</div>

After you deleted the page, I started to wonder if it would be better to add to all links in Template:Inventory 

{{Translation|...}}

for example: 

<div class="factorio-icon">[[File:Transport belt.png|32px|link=Transport belt{{If language suffix}}|{{Translation|Transport belt}}]]</div>

Do I think right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by JakubSTR (talk • contribs) 11:15, 9 February 2018‎

That indeed was a good idea, so I added it. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 12:41, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Intermediary Products

Am I allowed to make a page on intermediary products? --Zippy (talk) 14:06, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

What would be on it? We already have Category:Intermediate products which lists all of the items in the intermediate tab in the inventory, what extra information would you add to a page about them? Also please consider moving this discussion to the wiki-work channel in the factorio subreddit discord, communication is much faster there :) -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 15:16, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

I was also thinking about adding such page or modifying Category:Intermediate products, as there are now two meanings to the phrase "intermediate products": this can either be the products on the "intermediate products" tab or the items that can be created using productivity modules. I've tried to clarify this on the Module page, but perhaps a separate one would help with that too. Uukgoblin (talk) 13:54, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Intermediate products are intermediate products and that's it. The error message you get from productivity modules is simply misleading, and will hopefully be changed. However, I've been thinking about making a category for "recipes that accept productivity modules" for a while. If you have an idea for a shorter, non-misleading name that is not "intermediate produtcs", let me know and I'll set up the category. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 14:04, 1 May 2018 (UTC)
OK, that makes sense. Yeah, a good name for such category is not easy to come up with :-) Maybe the devs will sort it out for us when they fix the error message ;-) Uukgoblin (talk) 14:18, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Is there any ways to mark the translation obsolete?

Hi Bilka! I'm glad that you gave me a welcome message.

I found some of translations obsolete and useless. For example, the Japanese version of Electric system didn't mentioned Steam turbine or Nuclear power (research). Maybe it's too much and too obvious for example, but there should be more obsolete texts it's not so clear to be obsolete.

The wiki forced editors to follow the English version, so I think it's convenient if there is a template, a category or something to state that the translation is obsolete. (It's also good if some bots automagically detect the obsolete pages and notify readers/writers of that) --Fried biter (talk) 07:34, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

If we had such a template, we would just end up with many pages being marked, which is not an improvement, it's just clutter. If you see that a page is outdated, update it. If you dont have the time/energy/whatever to update it, put it on a to-do-list in your userspace. This has the same result as marking with a template, but wont clutter a lot of pages. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 20:14, 8 March 2018 (UTC)
First, I don't think it's not an improvement that mark obsolete pages obsolete, since it could be simply a lie. It helps not only writers but also readers. So I don't think it's enough to put in my mind or my userspace.
But your concern is reasonable. Well, If we put and remove the template by hand, it should be just clutter. But I don't think leaving it to bots are quite hard. Basically, it watches Special:RecentChanges. If an English page is edited, then follow the inter-lang links and paste the template(or anything). If a non-English page which contains the template is edited, simply remove the template. If this is too much or too less, we can add some conditions like:
  • tolerant to small changes (ex: edit only 2bytes changed, which is likely to fix typo)
  • tolerant unless it's too obsolete (ex: only if the sum of changes in the original is more than a threshold / only if the translation is n-months older than original)
  • force non-English editors to tell translation edits from the other minor ones apart (ex: translate edit should contain '[Tt]ranslat' in Summary)
  • etc...
If your concern is that template/category/something itself is a clutter to readers, maybe it's not so much. Make it hidden category as wikipedia do. If your concern is about server performances, it's over. I have no way to deal it with :P --Fried biter (talk) 04:59, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
My concern is that it wont be useful because so many pages will be marked. Furthermore, a script that automatically marks pages will be very error-prone since it's a bot, and not a human. But I should be able to throw together a script that makes a list of most likely outdated pages. That will take a few days, then we can review the list to see if it would actually be useful to mark all of those pages, and take appropiate action. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 15:37, 9 March 2018 (UTC)
I understood your concern. And I believe it can be solved by an appropriate conditioning. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you are willing to try it to gather information to review. Thank you for your support with a bot. I hope it will work out fine. (p.s. I don't know what language you are using to run bot on the wiki, but I can r/w some python or java so maybe I can help you with reviewing script)--Fried biter (talk) 10:32, 10 March 2018 (UTC)
I wrote the script, you can find it here: [2] The result of it is about what I was expecting: User:Bilka/Outdated pages. Most pages are outdated, so the list is rather useless. I excluded my own and my bot's edit from the language page dates because I only made structure maintaining edits on language pages without actually changing the content. I hope this shows why I dont think it's a good idea to mark the pages with templates. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 18:27, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
(<- outdent) Thank you for writing a script! And as mentioned above, some filtering by certain conditions might be useful to reduce the number of "outdated" pages. The script simply compare their timestamps, and this results in too many candidates and make the list useless. So why not try to introduce some limitations such as en.timestamp > langTimestamp + PATIENCE_CONST, or setting rvlimit parameter gives us previous revisions so that we can ignore minor edits. I don't know how it costs server resources, but if not too much, I think it still can be useful. (P.S. Can I run/test the script without special privileges? Special:ApiSandbox is not so flexible...) --Fried biter (talk) 06:28, 30 March 2018 (UTC)
Both your proposed conditions will falsify the result. Even 1 edit on a page can make any translation outdated, no matter how old it is, see for example Special:Diff/155934. So for example excluding pages that are "only" a week/month outdated will lead to wrong results. We have no rules or guides for what to mark as a minor edit since it is impossible to enforce, so sorting by that would also lead to wrong results. You should be able to test the script by just copying pasting it into the browser console and running main(languages); after lowering the 100 in line 112 and 113 to 50 to account for your lower api limits. The create page call on line 64 also wont work, you'll have to find another way to print the output somewhere. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 09:29, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Translate template to different word-order languages

Hi Bilka! I find it hard to translate Template:about to Japanese.

In the Factorio:Translation_guide, it says translation of templates should be done with just replace the argument of the template. And the first sentence of Template:about is {{Translation|This article is about}} {{{1}}}.. But in Japanese, that sentence should be translated as この項目では、{{{1}}}について説明しています。. I mean, another translation template is needed after {{{1}}} to simply substitute. Some similar issue should be aroud here and there since Japanese has quite different word-order to English or other Europian languages, so I want to know how to translate in such cases.

(reference: Template:Otheruses in Japanese Wikipedia, which is used as equivalent of Template:About in the other languages.)— Preceding unsigned comment added by Fried biter (talk • contribs) 13:20, 10 March 2018‎

Sadly there is no good way to solve this issue. Due to how translations are set up on this wiki, I can't add another translation template after the {{{1}}}, or include it in the template used for the sentence, neither of these options would yield the desired result. So, your options now are either making template:about/ja and translating the template directly, or rewording the sentence in a way that uses the English sentence structure, which would be preferable. I can understand that the second option may be very hard to do, which is why the first option would be acceptable. This issue and the options to solve it vary on a case by case basis, so please let me know of any other templates where you also have this problem before doing anything with them. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 14:03, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
Okay, I will postpone translating the templates until the consensus about how to translate them has reached by the Japanese editors community. Additionally, I will inspect them and try translations by rewording. If it's done, I will notice you. --Fried biter (talk) 05:30, 12 March 2018 (UTC)

Getting rid of BurnerNav template

Hi, Thanks for the initial warm welcome!

I've seen that the Template:BurnerNav didn't get the same treatment as other nav templates, so I've added missing links. However, I've now realised that the content of this template is entirely covered by other nav templates (Intermediate products, Production items, Logistics templates). What about getting rid of that template and relaying on the existing ones instead? Spyhawk (talk) 17:53, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

I agree, so I added the valid fuel row to the infoboxes to completely replace the template, the template will be deleted soon. Please next time think about these kind of implications before editing some of the most used templates on the wiki. Thank you. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 18:37, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Yes, definitely a big oversight from my side. Sorry about that! Spyhawk (talk) 18:58, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

Roadmap

Hi,

The Roadmap page is deceptively empty. What about merging Roadmap/Coming_Releases with it, as it serves as the actual Roadmap page anyway? Spyhawk (talk) 13:47, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Hey, this had been planned for a while, thank you for reminding me. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 14:43, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, this is much better now. Spyhawk (talk) 14:57, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

Tutorial: Combinator tutorial edit

Hey Bilka. This was my first edit, so forgive me for overlooking the summary section of the edit page. I removed a link that serves no educational purpose and seems self-promotional to me. Exploring this youtube channel does lead to some videos that may or may not be relevant, but the link itself is too aspecific. And because of the other link (reddit), it is also redundant.

Even if it were just plain text, claiming ownership of an idea on this wiki seems inappropriate to me, although I'm not sure if there's a specific rule against it.

By the way, is this the place to post this, or should I use the discussion page of the page in question? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Koekjesfabriek (talk • contribs) 20:55, 30 April 2018‎

The design is mostly known under the name of the original designer ("Madzuris train loader"), so it is not directly self-promotional. I however agree that the link to the reddit thread is enough, so I removed the youtube link again, and included the name with the reddit link, so that people searching for the design can still find it.
This is the right place; a big reason for reverting your edit was that it was your first edit, and a "controversial" one, so I expected some kind of reasoning. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 07:49, 1 May 2018 (UTC)


New translation language - pt-pt

Hey Bilka, I am new to the wiki and I would like to contribute translations in pt-pt. Can you please add support for this language? Thanks. FranzPT (talk) 15:03, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice, I have added support for pt-pt. Have fun translating! -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 15:06, 4 July 2018 (UTC)
Nice, thanks for the quick response. I will carefully read about the translation rules/procedures and start asap. FranzPT (talk) 16:30, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

What is the standard on what information is useful?

Are you always this hostile to everyone? Honestly, this explains why the wiki has so much outdated information. I'm just trying to follow some kind of consistent guideline.

A number of pages already use smallest whole-number ratios as building guidelines, especially for early and midgame structures. https://wiki.factorio.com/Solar_panel 23.8 solar panels per megawatt is somehow "useful information", and 1,000 / 42 is apparently not "easy to calculate"? What exactly is the standard?

If power grid information is that obvious, does the laser turret page really need a note about energy usage at all? Again, I'm just trying to find a consistent standard. Does every single page for a high-energy drain building need a "don't forget to build accumulators and steam storage" reminder? The roboport page only has a much less specific "make sure your power grid can handle the load" reminder (again, is it really necessary to even have that, when the building clearly consumes up to 5 MW when active?). But then it just copy-pastes numbers from the sidebar. The numbers are literally right next to duplicate information. That's "helpful" and "not easy to calculate"? You're really going to need to explain, clearly and precisely, what the standard is, instead of making rude, passive-aggressive remarks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arrkhal (talk • contribs) 20:19, 10 July 2018

Since you presented examples I will explain the rough guidelines using them:
The information on the solar panel page is useful because you deal in predictable units in the electric system; usually you will know how much power you want your solar panels to supply. This amount of power can usually be obtained directly from the game when you are building solar panels to replace another energy source, or from online calculators when you are planning a setup. It shouldn't have its own section though, that is likely just a relict from an earlier version of the page.
In contrast, when dealing with enemies nothing is predictable: Neither the number of enemies, when they will attack, or their strength can be reliably predicted, meaning that you will never know how much shots your turrets will fire. So, the information does not have a use case.
I am still unsure about how suitable the sentence on the laser turret page is, which is why I modified it when I reverted your edit. I will put further thought into whether it should be removed completely. In general, the high power demand should not be mentioned on every page. The roboport section wasn't changed since the guidelines were established, so I took the liberty to fix it.
As you can see, there can't really be a consistent standard about something where context matters immensely. I recommend you to just edit the pages while trying to follow the general style. After a while you will get a feeling for what is suitable, and until then, your edits will be corrected. -- Bilka (talk) - Admin 19:26, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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